Episode 3: Peace

In this episode, we challenge the commonly accepted understanding of peace, acknowledging it includes God's enduring presence rather than just the absence of chaos, highlighting the unique, faith-based peace Jesus offers. Together we explore barriers like fear and societal pressures that hinder our peace, and share practical strategies for cultivating it in daily life. 

Transcript

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Stephen:
[0:08] For a lot of us, peace feels circumstantial. If the bills are paid, if the kids are quiet, if the house is clean and tidy, if the inbox is under control, then we feel peace.

Stephen:
[0:21] But the peace the Spirit gives is different.

Stephen:
[0:25] Jesus didn't say, I'll give you a break. He said, my peace I leave with you. My peace I give to you. That means it's not a vibe. It's not a spa day, it's something given. Something that can guard your heart and mind in Christ. Peace isn't the absence of chaos, it's the presence of someone greater in the middle of it. So how do we walk in that kind of peace when life is loud? How do we become people of peace, not just people who want it? Welcome to The Fellowship.

Stephen:
[1:38] Welcome back, and thanks for joining us on The Fellowship. This is Season 3, The Fruits of the Spirit, and today we're taking a closer look at peace. Now, if there's one word we all crave more than anything, it's probably this one. It's one of those highly debatable and ambiguous words which brings up lots of discussion. A few questions we're going to ponder today are, what does peace really look like? What blocks it in our daily lives? And how can we live like peace is something we already have, not something we're just constantly trying to find? So, ladies and gentlemen, what are you chewing on?

Robert:
[2:21] So I think it's funny that whenever we record, I pick him up. We have all of these like conversations in the car about how timely these things are. And then we end up getting into the conversation before we even start recording, you know.

Kat:
[2:39] Yeah. And then I have to tell everyone like, save it for the episode.

Robert:
[2:43] It's just, I love that God works that way.

Kat:
[2:47] Yeah, I know. It's amazing. It's funny when you're recording, when we're recording the intro and you're reading that, Stephen, we're all smiling. because we know that this topic is timely. I mean, it's always timely, but I feel like there's a lot going on right now. And so not only do we need peace, but I think we're seeking it.

Robert:
[3:09] Right. Well, I think we're seeking all of the fruit.

Kat:
[3:13] Right.

Robert:
[3:14] Right. And it's like, I think when we bring it, present like we bring it to the present like okay i'm aware of this right now i'm not thinking about self-control right now i'm not thinking about gentleness right now i'm thinking about peace and then when you are aware of that thing god puts opportunity right like things in your path so you're like oh yeah he.

Stephen:
[3:39] Doesn't just load us up with a software update.

Robert:
[3:42] To no wouldn't that be nice.

Stephen:
[3:44] That'd be amazing. It's like the Matrix. I know I've said this in the past, but there's a scene where, Neo, the main character, is learning about his identity as the chosen one, as he's the one. Well, he has no training. And so he's going through this literal software download into his brain, and he learns Kung Fu.

Robert:
[4:06] Just like immediately.

Stephen:
[4:07] Just immediately.

Kat:
[4:08] See that? I want that.

Stephen:
[4:09] I want that.

Kat:
[4:10] I want to learn Kung Fu immediately. Bloop.

Robert:
[4:13] There it is.

Stephen:
[4:13] Basically, you're just loaded with the software as you sleep. I would love to just wake up and go, I know what I'm doing now. I have peace.

Robert:
[4:21] And I wonder if we would waste that, though. As humans, I think we would waste it.

Kat:
[4:25] You know, we would.

Stephen:
[4:27] It's in our nature to take those things for granted.

Robert:
[4:30] Why doesn't he in that role? I mean, I'm not familiar with that whole story. I saw it years ago, and I thought it was.

Stephen:
[4:37] So his whole journey was he desired something more than the daily grind.

Robert:
[4:43] Right.

Stephen:
[4:43] He knew there was something more, but he couldn't, he didn't know what it was. And so the more he learned, the hungrier he became to learn more. Not to use it for himself, but his nature was to protect the people he loved.

Robert:
[4:58] But doesn't he get drawn into something fictional and that's how he becomes Neo or? well.

Stephen:
[5:05] He gets drawn into or drawn out of the simulation but that's a whole tangent we are way off.

Robert:
[5:13] Topic i'm just kind of curious because i mean if we're talking about like if we had these things would we waste them or would we use it would we weaponize it and be like i have peace i don't think that we.

Kat:
[5:26] Would waste the thing.

Robert:
[5:28] Right i.

Kat:
[5:30] I think that, The struggle to get it is part of the journey, at least for us. And so to learn that thing, like each step is a part of the download.

Robert:
[5:41] Right.

Stephen:
[5:42] I think it's a matter of stewardship.

Robert:
[5:43] I like the way you explained that, yeah.

Stephen:
[5:45] I think it's a matter of stewardship. When we're given something like peace, we have to protect it because it has value. When we're given each of these fruits or when we're given the spirit, we need to protect it, preserve it. so it can bear much fruit in us. If we don't preserve the ground from the weeds, from the thorns, then other things can take place. And this was kind of going back to our conversation on the way here.

Stephen:
[6:22] When we take every thought captive, well, sometimes those thoughts come way too quickly, way too many all at once. How do we navigate when our mind and the world around us are so noisy?

Robert:
[6:34] It's moving faster than we're able to keep up almost. Right.

Stephen:
[6:38] And so when we have those kinds of conversations and we think, well, we just need to have peace.

Robert:
[6:44] Easier said than done.

Stephen:
[6:46] Way easier said than done. And it comes back to it's not us. That peace isn't something we just have. He places us in these situations so that we can practice it. That we can be reminded of his peace.

Robert:
[7:04] Right.

Stephen:
[7:06] You know. We're already getting into it.

Kat:
[7:09] So, okay. Step back. So we keep saying it, peace, referring to it. But what is peace? How would we define it?

Robert:
[7:18] Well, it's interesting. Again, me and Stephen texting back and forth. He had a different definition than what I was thinking, but I see how they combine. So give your definition first.

Stephen:
[7:29] Are you talking about when we were.

Robert:
[7:30] We were texting oh.

Stephen:
[7:33] Gosh what did i say.

Robert:
[7:34] You were saying something along the lines that it it has to it's it's two things coming together where it's it's like a something's at war oh right you were getting into something being at war and how there becomes this space in which that war subsides right it's.

Stephen:
[7:53] Who's on the who's on the throne.

Robert:
[7:55] Right So in scripture.

Stephen:
[7:59] We learn that there is a holy of holies, and there's only one who sits on that throne.

Robert:
[8:05] Right.

Stephen:
[8:05] It's God, the Almighty, the Father. He's huge. He's big. He is all-encompassing. He's omni-everything, and we're not. But the moment we allow ourselves to take that throne subconsciously, whether we mean to or not, we stop trusting in him and we start leaning on ourselves, our wisdom, our strength, our plan. And so the presence of peace is the absence of us.

Stephen:
[8:41] So what we were talking about in the car like kind of where i was going with that was, when we empty ourselves of us we are able to be filled with him the more of us we have the more anxiety takes over because we don't know what the future holds we don't know, how to navigate every situation perfectly in a way that we know will be safe he does, so i would i would say that peace is the presence of trust when we have the kind of peace that the spirit gives us it's because the spirit reminds us that we can trust in him who gives the spirit, and when that trust is strengthened through life's many many circumstances right that trust deepens. And when that trust deepens, that peace strengthens.

Stephen:
[9:42] What do you guys think?

Kat:
[9:45] It's, yes. Yes.

Robert:
[9:49] I can't dispute that.

Kat:
[9:50] Yeah, there's, I think my brain is searching for that in one sentence.

Robert:
[9:56] Right.

Kat:
[9:57] I would love to encapsulate that in one sentence.

Robert:
[10:00] Well, I think that it's interesting that.

Kat:
[10:02] Or like a phrase.

Robert:
[10:03] Right. So.

Kat:
[10:04] Like peace is God or peace is.

Robert:
[10:06] Peace is love.

Kat:
[10:07] Peace is.

Stephen:
[10:08] I can say it in a phrase.

Kat:
[10:09] Okay, say it in a phrase.

Stephen:
[10:10] Proverbs 3, 5, and 6.

Kat:
[10:12] Say it.

Stephen:
[10:12] Trust in the Lord and do not lean on your own understanding, but in all of your ways, acknowledge him and he will make your path straight. The very first word in that command is to trust.

Kat:
[10:27] Interesting.

Stephen:
[10:27] And if you trust, then you can lean on him. And that leaning is where we learn peace. Because when we lean on him, he will not fall out from underneath us.

Kat:
[10:40] He will not drop us. What is that feeling of peace?

Robert:
[10:44] Well, that's the thing. I think now you're getting into the feeling part of it. And I know he brought this up in the last episode about the differentiating between feelings. And I don't know, what was the opposite side of that?

Stephen:
[10:54] Mindset.

Robert:
[10:55] Mindset. Okay. Ask your question again.

Kat:
[11:00] How would you define it?

Robert:
[11:01] Well, I mean, like I looked at the Greek, but then I looked at the Hebrew. And it's interesting to look at the difference between Old Testament and New Testament. And when I looked it up, I'm like, duh, how did I forget that word? Right? Like, we're watching the chosen. What do they say to one another all the time?

Kat:
[11:18] Shalom.

Robert:
[11:19] Shalom. Right? And on Sabbath, what do you say?

Stephen:
[11:21] Shabbat shalom.

Robert:
[11:22] Right. Like, there's all these, like... That word means completeness.

Kat:
[11:29] Yes.

Robert:
[11:31] Soundness.

Kat:
[11:32] I love that.

Robert:
[11:33] Right? Contentment. But I love those first two definitions because I feel that captures more of what you're trying to say, Stephen. Right? The idea that when we are in Christ, we have that shalom. We have that completeness. We have that soundness. Whereas I feel like with the New Testament definition, I'm not sure how to say Irene, that has more to do with like tranquility of like a state of being more so. And I think that's where we tend to get the more emotional aspect of the term where it's like, I'm at peace because I feel secure and safe. Perfect example, this afternoon. So this morning has just been, ah, Stacy's first day of work. I got to get up with her and I want to get Jamie off to band camp and I need some devotional time. And then I got to go to meet with my pastor. And I'm like, I wanted to just eat lunch and read Watchman Nee. She wanted to do that. Charlotte had other ideas.

Kat:
[12:41] As our kids often do.

Robert:
[12:42] Right. And she's like, well, how about, she's like, well, can you make me this for lunch? Yeah, I got your girl. So we make it, we sit down and, um, let's make a dragon together. And I'm like, well, there goes, there goes watchman knee, you know? And I'm like, God, how are you using this moment right now? And in it, I'm realizing what a coincidence that we're talking about peace. and Charlotte tends to be the person that brings peace in my life she's my constant if you want to use like a lost term or something or what is that inception you know like it's like, I'm sitting there eating with her, designing a dragon. And I'm not, like, I love to be creative. I'm just, I don't take the time to do it because I'm busy.

Stephen:
[13:29] Oh, don't sell yourself short.

Robert:
[13:31] Not often. Not often, right? Like, lately, it's just been so busy that I don't have the opportunity to participate in a creative outlet. I just read and take naps. That's the age I'm at now, right? I just want to read and take naps. Maybe play a video game here and there. but like she just pulled me in and there was a moment in it i'm just like i'm praying internally i'm like god bless this moment this is just thank you for giving me this moment with her to be creative and to be present for her and she brought me this this i don't want to say shalom but i i didn't recognize i'm i recognize it more as irene because there was a sense of like tranquility there was a sense of security safety we're here in our house at the kitchen table enjoying each other's presence and we were present yes to one another right and stacy could do that sometimes like we'll like do like diamond dots or something but there's normally conversation revolving around oh how was your day this happened this student did that oh my god i want to punch somebody in the throat right it's not peaceful yeah you know so.

Stephen:
[14:43] There is the the difference between the feeling the.

Robert:
[14:46] Tranquility that one receives um.

Stephen:
[14:48] So let me ask you this is the tranquility the feeling of tranquility is that what was given by the spirit.

Robert:
[14:56] No i don't think so i mean i think that might be a uh a byproduct right a byproduct but i don't think that was what.

Stephen:
[15:02] Do you think cat do you think the idea of the tranquility that comes with peace is that what the spirit gave us.

Kat:
[15:15] I think the Spirit gives us opportunities for that. Opportunities to be tranquil. Opportunities like being with Charlotte. And then, you know, we enter that state. But I'm thinking, Jesus said, I didn't come here to bring peace. I didn't come to bring peace, but a sword. And it's interesting because he knew that his calling would cause division. And he knew that following him would cause division. And Jesus was, I mean, the bringer of peace, right? The prince of peace. The prince of peace. It's funny that he says this statement because I'm not sure that tranquility, you know, that feeling of calmness and happiness is really what the spirit is after. I think the spirit is after something a little bit deeper.

Robert:
[16:19] I think that's where Stephen's trying to take us.

Stephen:
[16:21] No, I'm not trying to do anything.

Kat:
[16:24] Yeah, yeah, okay. He's baiting hook over here.

Robert:
[16:27] Dude, he crafted this beautiful devotional. I mean, I'm sure he's got a plan here. And then he wrote a book of notes that we can discuss.

Kat:
[16:36] We shortened it a little bit.

Stephen:
[16:37] They trimmed my book to like a sentence.

Robert:
[16:41] To a novella.

Stephen:
[16:41] A novella.

Kat:
[16:42] Novella, yeah.

Stephen:
[16:44] So Paul, the Apostle Paul, speaks of a piece that surpasses all understanding. if if it's something we can understand or comprehend or grasp then it's probably something we can replicate of our own interesting okay if we can't grasp it then how can we replicate it on our own so.

Robert:
[17:06] Then essentially you're saying like when i get that right then that piece that i can't like oh it's because i smoked a lot of weed or i.

Stephen:
[17:16] You can't reason it right.

Robert:
[17:18] Right it just happened.

Stephen:
[17:20] I think it is something so far beyond what we can reasonably explain.

Robert:
[17:24] You have to recognize it as supernatural.

Stephen:
[17:26] Supernatural. Right. And there are only, you're not going to find peace, the supernatural peace, I would suggest- When you're on the wrong path.

Robert:
[17:39] So. So.

Stephen:
[17:41] When you're playing with fire, you're not going to feel peace.

Robert:
[17:43] Right. But so, for example, I wasn't planning on replicating an opportunity for peace with Charlotte today during lunch. However, I took the time to recognize it as thank you, God. Let's do this.

Kat:
[18:00] Maybe that's it. Maybe that's it. It's the mindset behind it.

Stephen:
[18:04] That's what I'm thinking.

Kat:
[18:05] It's the heart that brings the peace, the decisions that the heart makes, which brings us peace.

Stephen:
[18:10] Because we know that the spirit is renewing our mind, our heart, the very way we think. Be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

Robert:
[18:21] Yeah.

Stephen:
[18:21] So part of the spirit's presence in our lives is aiding in that transformative process.

Robert:
[18:27] And renewing that tense.

Stephen:
[18:30] That holy of holies.

Robert:
[18:31] It's going on and on and on. I mean, it's not like you're saying that you download it and it's done. It's an ongoing thing.

Stephen:
[18:39] I would even suggest that that moment that you experienced with Charlotte was placed there.

Robert:
[18:46] Oh, yeah. But I mean, I think a lot of it comes with recognizing that too.

Kat:
[18:51] Yeah, because he could say, I don't have time, Charlotte. I've got to make you lunch. I've got to do this. I've got to go take the laundry, put it in the dryer.

Robert:
[18:57] Well, let's say that I did it anyways, but I didn't recognize God's hand in it. And I think that that's kind of, I feel like maybe that's what Stephen's trying to explain is, or trying to get at is that, you know, you can have it, but you don't see it.

Stephen:
[19:14] You're not aware of it.

Robert:
[19:15] Right.

Stephen:
[19:16] So I would suggest that part of having the spirit in our lives is having an awareness where there wasn't before. Right. You're aware of this piece that came not because of what you're doing or what you tried to do. it came about perhaps despite, in spite of you it didn't come of your doing and I think that's what we're going to find with each of these fruits, they don't come about because we worked to get them I really practiced this week to get my peace no, these fruits are byproducts of the spirit working in us, they are the fruit of that work.

Robert:
[20:01] Well, I think what's interesting that, yes, there's the awareness, but there are times where there are barriers to this. And I think this is what we were talking about in the car is trying to identify what those barriers to peace are. Right. And I think a lot of the times it's how we're distracted.

Kat:
[20:24] Is that what you think would be our number one barrier?

Robert:
[20:28] Well, we were joking around just in the car, and I'm just like, oh, that guy's riding by on his bike. Look at his cool gloves. They got skeletons on it. It's a big skeleton. That's pretty cool. I wonder why he's driving that bike. Is he driving that bike because he got a DUI, or is he driving that bike because he's trying to stay healthy? Why does he have that type of book bag? And then I keep driving, and then I see a really cool blue Chevy Volt. And I'm like, oh, wow, that's a really cool color. Right? And it's like, all right. And at the same time, I'm having a conversation with Steven.

Stephen:
[21:00] A very great conversation.

Robert:
[21:02] Right.

Kat:
[21:02] You've got all this other processing going on.

Robert:
[21:04] Right. And it's like, okay, so how do we quiet the mind? It's like, dude, shut up. Like, take your thoughts captive. That's a really cool Chevy Volt. Sure. You know, I love that color. You know, and it's just, I think that that is a barrier for a lot of people is learning to be present enough. to just shut out everything else. Because, I mean, you were just talking about how frenzied things have been. Just busy. I'm traveling. I'm a mom. I'm a wife, right? Like, there's so many things I need to do.

Kat:
[21:39] Yeah. I would say that's my barrier, is the expectation in my own mind of all of the things that I need to do. And the expectation of, I need to be this for everyone. And if I don't then the fear sets in and actually one of my questions was what is the relationship between peace and fear and, Because I feel like for me, those two, right? When I am fearful, I don't have peace.

Robert:
[22:08] Right.

Kat:
[22:08] And fear is what encroaches. And fear takes many forms. It's fear that I don't measure up, fear that I don't get things done, fear that I'm not who I need to be on and on and on.

Stephen:
[22:22] So fear then, in each of those examples and so many more, fear is the absence of trust.

Kat:
[22:29] Yes. it's the absence of trust that that things are not going to work right they're not going to work out or but I think it's.

Robert:
[22:40] But that's based on your expectations and you had said something just a couple seconds ago about you know what you're putting on yourself, you know what is it that your kids want from you what is it that your husband wants from you what is it that your business like you're putting yourself up here when it's like bro just bring it down a couple pegs it's not it don't need to be like that right.

Kat:
[23:02] And i i don't know if it's trust i think maybe it's not trusting myself not trusting myself or not trusting that i can just be and still be valuable.

Robert:
[23:16] Right and.

Kat:
[23:18] Finding my value in the striving which folks is going we're going to talk about in.

Robert:
[23:24] Episode.

Kat:
[23:27] I think it's goodness. Goodness? Faithfulness? Gentleness. Episode gentleness. We'll circle back to that in episode gentleness. But okay, so another question.

Kat:
[23:40] What do you think is a barrier to peace in our world?

Robert:
[23:44] Well, you just said fear.

Stephen:
[23:47] Giving into and allowing fear to... Root itself.

Robert:
[23:56] It's so easy. I think the problem is, is our society, I don't want to say functions on it, but you just turn on the news.

Kat:
[24:04] Right.

Robert:
[24:05] It's never like you never have these like really great pieces of, oh, look, this bunny rabbit gave birth to the largest litter. Right. Like, we don't care about that stuff. We want to know who got bombed, who got killed, what happened in our neighborhood. And we've created this culture of unrest and unease. It's like, oh, my God, I'm scared to go outside. I'm scared to take my kid to school. I'm scared to walk into a store.

Stephen:
[24:29] We're easily controlled when fear is at play.

Robert:
[24:33] Right. And social media does it, too.

Stephen:
[24:35] Oh.

Robert:
[24:36] And not only just the news, but just we fall into the comparison trap.

Kat:
[24:41] Absolutely.

Stephen:
[24:42] And fear of worth and value or fear of not having worth and value.

Robert:
[24:48] Yes.

Stephen:
[24:48] Fear plays a huge, huge role in our pursuit of peace.

Robert:
[24:56] Yes.

Stephen:
[24:57] Because fear tries to rob our peace. And the peace that comes from him, the spirit of God, is constantly at war with that force that is trying to rob us of that peace. Yes. The enemy is looking for ways to steal, to corrupt, to destroy, to crush. What better way to do that than to try to target the very thing that keeps us going, our peace. What are you laughing about?

Robert:
[25:34] I'm laughing. I'm thinking of a Rage Against the Machine song. It's completely not appropriate. I wouldn't recommend listening to it in front of your kids. But it's turn the radio off or turn the radio on. No, turn it off. Fear is your only God on the radio. Nah, turn it off. Right? That's good. And I mean, it's a great song. I highly recommend checking it out. Rage Against the Machine rules. Anyway, it's true. Or take Dune. Fear is the mind killer. There's all these ways that we are controlled by those things. And we need to take control. We need to turn it off.

Kat:
[26:15] So, interestingly, I read recently that there's a difference between Western culture and Eastern culture in the concept of fear, or I'm sorry, in the concept of peace. So, Western culture defines peace by what it is not. So, for instance, there's this negative sense like, well, peace is the absence of war.

Robert:
[26:37] Okay.

Kat:
[26:38] So peace, it's like having this pessimistic mindset, right? And this is like going back to Pax Romana, which is the Roman peace. And it was a military peace, right? It was peace by deterrence. It was peace by force. It was peace where everything was controlled. And then you have Pax Christi, which was the peace of Christ. And that's peace that's sacrificial.

Kat:
[27:06] That's peace where the ego, the aggression, the power hungriness is eliminated. And so the Eastern culture is more about that positive sense. It's not about the absence of war, but the presence of right relationships and the presence of the spirit.

Stephen:
[27:24] What gets emptied when we empty what when we empty ourselves well that's the same thing for love the kind of love that we're we're striving for is one where we empty ourselves, sacrificially for someone else yes the kind of joy that we're striving for is sacrificial because the greater kind of joy we experience is when we when we put aside our selfish desires for something else there is a greater a greater joy that can be experienced and.

Kat:
[27:58] Could there not be a greater peace that's experienced when we do the same thing.

Stephen:
[28:01] When we put aside our desires and our fears and our fears and our worries and our plans and when we put those aside or when we surrender those things, And say, God, not my will, and I can grit my teeth when I say that, not my will, but yours be done. The more we learn to truly believe that, not just recite it when it's convenient or in church when it's convenient, when the weather's nice, but to learn to recite that even in the middle of the storm.

Kat:
[28:40] Yes.

Stephen:
[28:43] In the devotional for peace Horatius Baffert's in 1873 A little bit of a background He was on a ship This background.

Robert:
[28:53] Gets me every.

Stephen:
[28:54] Time It gets me every time He was on a ship His entire family was with him And in the middle of the sea No Well, no, no, no, no, no He was in the ship And then his family was left behind No.

Kat:
[29:08] No, they went ahead of him Yes That's right.

Stephen:
[29:11] There were two ships.

Kat:
[29:11] Yeah, there were two ships. He stayed behind. That's right.

Stephen:
[29:14] I got that detail.

Kat:
[29:14] And he sent his wife and his daughters ahead of him.

Robert:
[29:17] Yes.

Stephen:
[29:18] And that ship was lost at sea, was destroyed, and it sank, whatever, it went down.

Kat:
[29:26] So it went down. His wife made it back.

Stephen:
[29:30] Mm-hmm.

Kat:
[29:30] And she telegrammed him and said, I'm back. They're all gone, meaning all of his daughters.

Stephen:
[29:39] And his response, he didn't tear his clothes, he didn't throw barrels, he didn't hit people.

Stephen:
[29:46] He crafted, in that moment, one of the most beautiful testimonies of peace. And he said, When peace like a river attendeth my soul, when sorrows like sea billows roll, whatever my lot you have taught me to say, it is well, it is well with my soul.

Kat:
[30:12] Yeah, I can't even imagine.

Stephen:
[30:16] Can you replicate that of your own strength?

Robert:
[30:18] No.

Kat:
[30:19] Absolutely not.

Robert:
[30:20] No.

Stephen:
[30:20] There's no way. When we're looking for what does it look like? It looks like you've lost your family and yet you're still able to look up to the heavens and give praise. That's insane. To our human standards, we'd say that is alien. That is insane. Where does that come from?

Kat:
[30:45] It would have to come outside of ourselves. I'm not sure that I would. I mean, that's like my peace I give to you, not as the world gives. Right. And that's Jesus said, I give you my peace, not the world's peace. Because the world's peace, I hate to say it, but it's conditional.

Stephen:
[31:02] What is the world's peace? Like, what are some examples of what we would say the world's peace contains?

Robert:
[31:07] Well, I just think, I don't know that it's necessarily different. It's just not lasting.

Stephen:
[31:12] Well, then that would be a huge difference. His peace is lasting, the world's peace isn't.

Robert:
[31:16] Well, I mean, you can still experience, you can still experience tranquility in both.

Stephen:
[31:21] Sure.

Robert:
[31:21] Right. I just think that the peace that he gives is eternal.

Kat:
[31:28] It goes beyond this world.

Robert:
[31:30] Right. Right. Whereas, I mean, you can experience peace here, but it's just, you're, you're going to constantly be.

Stephen:
[31:37] It's momentary.

Robert:
[31:39] Right.

Stephen:
[31:39] You can pursue peace in financial stability, security, but okay. So you, you're now financially stable and secure. Now you're dealing with a job that you have to maintain and the, the environment that you may not find, uh, uh, enjoyable. You might have toxic relationships that you're having to maintain for the sake of your job. So there's always, when we find, when we seek peace in our surroundings, there's always going to be something that sours it. It will never truly satisfy, like you're saying, eternally. If you try to find peace in possession, well, possessions, they come and go.

Robert:
[32:26] Best.

Stephen:
[32:27] If you try to find peace in your friends, well, it's also true that friends can come and go. Does that mean that your peace is no longer when you don't have any friends? So we have to ask ourselves, is the peace that we have, and I'm going to go back to when she left, when she was thinking about leaving. I'm going to go there for a second.

Robert:
[32:48] Okay, go there.

Stephen:
[32:49] But we have to ask ourselves, if I don't have this thing or this person or this opportunity, will I still have peace?

Robert:
[32:59] And I think that gets into what you had said, conditional. And I didn't quite understand it, but as he's explaining that it makes sense, it is conditional upon this thing happening. Yes, right. Yeah, so that makes sense now.

Stephen:
[33:12] Whatever my lot, You have taught, whatever happens in my life, unconditionally, you've taught me to say, it is well with my soul.

Robert:
[33:24] Again, that's an awareness thing, though.

Stephen:
[33:26] It is.

Robert:
[33:26] Right?

Stephen:
[33:27] Because it means he's placing his, he sees the fulfillment of his joy and the

Stephen:
[33:38] security of his peace is not found in the world around him.

Kat:
[33:42] So that's kind of like your question where you said, how can we live like peace is something we already have rather than something we're constantly trying to find?

Stephen:
[33:51] It's recognizing like what you said, when I'm dealing with the uncertainty, does he hear my prayer? It's acknowledging he does hear our prayer.

Robert:
[34:01] Right.

Stephen:
[34:02] He is present.

Robert:
[34:04] Yeah.

Stephen:
[34:05] He is much larger than our pain and suffering and problems and doubts and uncertainties. He's here even now.

Robert:
[34:14] I so badly want that to just resonate with all of my teacher friends right now. Because I feel like there's this shift near the end of your summer.

Kat:
[34:24] Your days are starting.

Robert:
[34:26] To dwindle and all of a sudden you start getting this this pre-school anxiety right and it's really i would somebody needs to do like the science behind the teacher brain um i can't remember which what i was reading.

Kat:
[34:43] Recently there's a curve that's like the new teacher curve right what do you i'm.

Robert:
[34:47] Not sure i've heard.

Kat:
[34:47] Where it's like um where you start off and it like climbs up right because there's anticipation and excitement and then you feel positive about it and then there's this huge drop like in the middle of the year where they they pitfall and then it slowly builds back up again by the end of the year and so this is a repeated cycle where we start, and we climb climb climb around mid-year we drop then we go back up.

Robert:
[35:12] We would think our awareness of that we would be able to combat that right like if.

Kat:
[35:18] I know i'm going into.

Robert:
[35:19] The school year there's a lot of unexpected right like i don't know.

Stephen:
[35:25] When we don't feel like we're in control perhaps that's the that's the teacher mindset is we don't have the control we have over summer, to to take care of the things that we know we need to take care of the way we need to take care of them then we're placed into a situation in an environment where we can't take care of, conflicts the way we know we need to because we have to play by another set of rules, There's so much that is outside of our control in the classroom.

Robert:
[36:00] Yes. However, I feel like there's a lot within our control and like the rules aren't always changing, right? I mean, there are certain things that come up from year to year, but I feel like as a teacher, like, and I bring this up because I'm experiencing it as Stacy goes back. She's in a new career. I am like learning to do this new thing as a coach. and the anxiety arises. But the reality is, is why? Why do we allow that fear to ruin our peace? Instead of trusting in what God blessed you with, like, like I'm thinking, I don't want to put names out there, but teachers that have been doing this for 33 years and it's like, bro, come on now, Like, you know what Christ has done for you over the years. You, you love him. You know him. You should be like just smooth sailing.

Stephen:
[37:03] It kind of reminds me of, well, an infection.

Kat:
[37:10] Okay.

Stephen:
[37:10] Okay.

Kat:
[37:11] Roll this one out, Steven.

Robert:
[37:14] Yes. Go with this.

Stephen:
[37:17] There's the kind of infection that you baby to healing, and there's the kind of infection that if you leave it long enough to let it fester, it becomes, well, just a part of you.

Robert:
[37:30] Yeah.

Stephen:
[37:31] And it's still there. It's still an infection But it's become so You become so desensitized to it That you don't see it as something you need to root out You live with it, So perhaps That negativity that you're describing That anxiety Is the lack of addressing The root of the issue, And instead we just learn to live with it I've got the anxiety It's just the teacher mindset Another year it's going to come with anxiety rather than going to the root of it. Where do I feel that anxiety? Why do I feel that anxiety? And what can I do to combat it? Because we can give into it and just say it's going to exist, or we can say it's going to exist and I have a plan to respond to it. That kind of goes back to the armor of God. We don't go into battle without armor. We don't go into the world expecting life to be easy. And we certainly don't go into war in our underwear.

Stephen:
[38:36] We go in with a plan. We go in with protection. We go in with strategy, with gear, with planned responses. And when those planned responses come from us, they're probably going to fail. But when those planned responses come from his spirit, maybe we should lean in to that a little bit.

Kat:
[39:01] What does that look like practically? So, for instance, I'm going back to school as a teacher, or I am on a vacation, and I have to go back to work next week. How do I carry my piece over? And it's almost like the Sabbath piece, right? There's very specific transitions to the Sabbath. You know, Friday night, the lighting of the candles and that whole tradition. And then it eases out on Saturday afternoon where we light the candles again and there's prayers and in the Jewish tradition. And it's interesting that there's these bookends and it's almost like to protect the process of peace.

Stephen:
[39:43] Yes.

Kat:
[39:44] And so how do we protect our process of peace? What are some applicable steps or, you know, something that some strategies, practical? Yeah. Like if you were, you know, sharing this with somebody who was struggling.

Kat:
[40:00] Me, I'm raising my hand. What are some practical steps for for keeping your peace?

Stephen:
[40:14] Remember that our entire existence is meant to educate us. This entire thing is a lesson. There is a lesson in this to be learned. In the good, the bad, the ugly, in all seasons, there is something for us to learn. Because he is teaching us. For every breath we have, there's a lesson to learn. So, how do we navigate that peace or protect that peace? It's recognizing that, We will fail when we rely on our own strength.

Kat:
[41:01] I agree. I think we need something tactile. I think we need something physical. Because we're in a physical world. And so, like the lighting of the candles, the bookends. Say I'm transitioning to teacherdom. Or I'm transitioning to... Teacher smart. You know, I'm on vacation. Now I'm transitioning into the work week. I mean, this is even for Sunday. Like transitioning from Sunday into the work week, and then the anxiety starts to build up. How do we protect our peace?

Robert:
[41:33] To answer your question, I think a lot of it has to do with knowing your word, right? What are the truths that have been written in the Bible and reminding yourself of that? Not like, oh, let me Google this quick. No, know the scriptures in your soul, in your heart, in your mind. Like you can't just let me wing this.

Kat:
[41:55] Right.

Robert:
[41:56] It becomes a practice. It's a renewing. Right. And I always think of, I always love the thought, um, the scripture, his thoughts for me outnumber the grains of sand. Right. Like, and then I go back to, to, uh, Psalms 139 where it's like, he knew me from the beginning of the world. Right. There's all these scriptures that, that place God in my life that he knew this moment. we would be sitting in the studio recording this and the words that would be coming out of our mouths. So for me to sit there and say, he didn't plan this difficult thing that happened this weekend... It is blasphemous, right? And it's like, I have to remind myself of what the scriptures say in every moment. When I feel fear, when I feel anxiety, what can I say to remind myself of the truth? Not my perspective, not my emotions. What's the truth? I don't know, that's how I tend to navigate it. Like you would ask for something practical. The word of God encompasses everything. I mean, you can't just...

Kat:
[43:06] No, I mean, maybe it's writing those things down, right? Or maybe it's texting a friend and saying, hey, I'm spiraling right now. I need your help. Can you center me? Can we pray together? Can we read the scripture together? Right? And that's like something that's tactile.

Stephen:
[43:23] Part of the tactile is, you know, we talk about having a planned response. In education, we know there's going to be difficult students. We know there's going to be difficult circumstances, but it is up to us to know that that's coming. We know it. So we need to plan accordingly.

Robert:
[43:43] Yeah.

Stephen:
[43:43] Well, we know that the peace that we may have in the moment is fickle. So we need to prepare for that peace to waver.

Kat:
[43:53] Right.

Stephen:
[43:54] And I would say a very clear tactile and tactical advantage we have as believers is he gave it to us in his word.

Robert:
[44:05] Yeah.

Stephen:
[44:06] So read Proverbs. Read the book of Proverbs. Like Proverbs 18 says, one who separates himself seeks his own desire. He quarrels against all sound wisdom. A fool does not delight in understanding, but in revealing his own mind. When a wicked person comes, contempt also comes, and with dishonor comes taunting. Well, further down, verse 10, there's wisdom in this. The name of the Lord is a strong tower The righteous runs into it and is safe So the name, His authority, his reputation Who he is, is a strong tower A guard for us So to use his word which he gives us to know him better, Use the word and memorize the word. Learn the words and may the words be on your mind more often than the things that stress you out.

Robert:
[45:15] So the word and then brought up, we brought up community. Being able to call on your brothers and sisters when you're in need. I think prayer.

Stephen:
[45:24] Prayer is another one.

Robert:
[45:25] Right? Like being able to pray for somebody. I mean, it's funny. We were praying over somebody at church on Sunday and there was this woman. dude she is fierce when she prays and i'm just like yeah bold yeah like that that devil's gone he's like pew he like fled and i'm just it was it was a really cool to like be in the presence of somebody that speaks with that much power in their prayer and i think that there i mean there are moments where we've prayed for each other and and i feel like there's that boldness as well Right. And I think it's important that we, we know that we can speak with the power of the Holy spirit to, to, to, to remove these, uh, these tendrils of the, of the, of the devil on our lives.

Kat:
[46:14] For, for somebody who has a hard time with peace because I'm constantly moving. I feel like I need to do a better job. This is on my mind as we're talking about it. And when I say, what are the tactic, the tactile, what are the practical applications? things that could help with transitions i think it's maybe fine i want to do this not a suggestion i mean not like i am coming from the place of you need to do this um this is just like something that i've thought about in our conversation but so if i'm ending the week right i'm going 150 miles an hour. Finding a way to light a candle, sit in quiet.

Stephen:
[46:56] To rest.

Kat:
[46:57] To rest. Even if it's like 20 minutes, if that's all I have time for, put the phone away and have that time. Light a candle, do some incense.

Stephen:
[47:09] It's funny, I talked to Bob about this too.

Kat:
[47:11] And then at the end, at the other end, So if I'm transitioning from the week or transitioning back into the week, if I also have that at the other end, and then this is a gift to myself and also an opportunity to have peace in him.

Stephen:
[47:31] It's interesting that you just described the Sabbath.

Kat:
[47:35] I know, I know. You just described it. It's been on my mind lately.

Stephen:
[47:38] And if you look up the Sabbath as it was mentioned in Exodus, I'm going to pull it up, Exodus 20. It says, remember the Sabbath day by, how do you do it? What's the tactical way? By keeping it holy, by keeping it set apart, different from the rest of your life. And then he goes even further. He doesn't just say, okay, that's good enough. Six days, you do all your work. But on the seventh day, you make it holy and separate and set apart. On it, you do no work. You, your sons, your daughters, your maids, everybody in your care is to be released from any burden of employment, burden of work of any kind. They're released. And we need to apply that to ourselves. We need to be released from anything we hold as priority, as this needs to be done. And this is time sensitive. Release it. Or have it done by the end of the week.

Kat:
[48:56] Sometimes that's difficult, though. Life happens. And life happens, and then it becomes more of a stressor, like, I have to let this go. I can't do anything.

Stephen:
[49:04] But there's so much peace. Where there is difficulty, on the other side is that peace.

Robert:
[49:10] I think we put that pressure on ourselves.

Kat:
[49:12] Too. We do.

Robert:
[49:13] That podcast that I shared with you guys, you really got to listen to it. But Entity talks about how we're so connected that we don't know, like, oh, I don't know the answer to this question. Let me Google it. Right? And we need to get to the point where we need to just say, it's not that important. I guess we don't need to know. Right? Similarly, we would say, you know, okay, I didn't get that done.

Stephen:
[49:39] Right.

Robert:
[49:39] Then it wasn't meant to be done.

Stephen:
[49:40] Right.

Robert:
[49:41] We save that for another time, or we return to it later, or it's just, see you later, bye.

Kat:
[49:47] Yeah. There are some responsibilities we can't avoid. And so then having to avoid them then becomes a stressor on its own. So I think, what can you do? What can you do in this weekend, in this moment, to preserve your peace and then start there and then expand on that?

Stephen:
[50:10] I think finding those opportunities for rest is important.

Kat:
[50:13] Yes, I do.

Stephen:
[50:14] It really does come down to our body needs rest. So does our soul. If we don't give our body rest, we know what happens.

Kat:
[50:26] Yeah.

Stephen:
[50:27] If we don't give our soul rest, we know what happens.

Kat:
[50:32] Peace, I feel like, is a mercy. And one of my favorite moments in church is when we sing a song, Kyrie Eleison. It's not the one by Mr. Mister, which was an 80s song.

Robert:
[50:47] I don't know it.

Kat:
[50:48] So, well, I'll read the lyrics to you. It's from Mr. Mister. It's Kyrie Eleison, which means in Greek, Lord have mercy. Kyrie Eleison, down the road that I must travel. Kyrie eleison through the darkness of the night Kyrie eleison where I'm going will you follow Kyrie eleison on the highway in the light and it's this concept of have mercy on my path and we sing this song Kyrie eleison peace in the world peace in our hearts peace in our homes peace in our families and it's I feel like this there's that connection between mercy and peace when we're in God's mercy we feel peace When we have mercy on ourselves, we feel peace. When we have mercy on other people, in the world, there is peace. Judgment on ourselves, judgment on other people, that brings turmoil. But mercy and love, that brings peace.

Stephen:
[51:47] Interesting you mentioned love.

Kat:
[51:49] Right?

Stephen:
[51:50] It's the very first fruit of the Spirit.

Kat:
[51:52] We're wrapping up. We're retiring everything we get.

Stephen:
[51:56] Really beautiful. And I think it's true When we were going into the first episode How do you love yourself? Because the golden command is To love your neighbor as yourself Well how do you love yourself? If you don't allow your body Your soul to rest Do you really love yourself? So a great way to practice self-love, self-care is to allow yourself those opportunities to rest, is to carve out the time to rest as best as you possibly can.

Kat:
[52:33] That's self-mercy.

Stephen:
[52:34] It's not to say that every, you know, I get a haircut, I should be getting a haircut every month. Sometimes I don't get it on the exact same frequency at the same time every time, but I know my body needs it. well the same thing try try to craft the time carve that out and see what happens and i've i've been i've been harping on on bob for years dude just try it dude just try it try one day, and just say i'm like you said cat i'm gonna turn my phone off i'm going to i'm gonna leave work at work and it'll it'll be there waiting for me when i get there tomorrow yeah but right now i'm gonna focus on him his peace his peace his presence being fully like you were with with charlotte being fully present and aware of all that he's doing in this relationship.

Robert:
[53:40] Are we doing qqqs this week.

Stephen:
[53:43] Yes we are doing qqqs we need a a sound effect for the sound effect.

Robert:
[53:49] Okay um steven steven.

Kat:
[53:52] And i collaborated on these so he knows what's coming i'm sorry bobbers were we're ambushing you okay bobbers you start when do you feel most at peace.

Robert:
[54:03] Um when do i feel most at peace when everything is done oh my gosh yes and i mean i know that nothing is ever always done but there's just okay dinner is over dishes are clean this is time to sit on your butt with your family and do nothing yes right maybe that's play a game maybe that's watch a show together that y'all love um just just stopping because like i don't know, entertaining is nothing entertainment is just a waste of.

Stephen:
[54:41] Time it's like i.

Robert:
[54:42] Mean it doesn't need to be pointless but i mean it's just exhale yeah steven.

Kat:
[54:50] When do you feel most at peace.

Stephen:
[54:53] How do you build off of that?

Robert:
[54:56] Well, you find peace in another way, right?

Kat:
[54:58] You say ditto.

Stephen:
[54:59] So, I do find peace when I rest. When I am able to sleep without an alarm.

Robert:
[55:10] Mm-hmm, yeah.

Stephen:
[55:11] Turning off that alarm is the best night of sleep.

Robert:
[55:16] There's no anticipation.

Stephen:
[55:17] You're not anticipating what has to come next. It's just, no, I can rest. And same coming out of the shower, getting dressed and sitting on the couch after a shower. My body has been renewed. It's amazing. and it doesn't matter what's on the tv or what's going on in the house i've been i've been renewed refreshed refreshed so yeah you.

Kat:
[55:44] Well i think all of that but i i really resonate with that feeling of when things come together right when things weave together and that which was separate or divided is together whether that that's in my home or an idea or even myself right in the during the day i am all these different parts at night when i rest and i i come i sit in my bed with my book like all of the elements of katherine come together into one and i don't have to shut one bifurcate myself in a million different directions that's a perfect.

Robert:
[56:23] Word for it yes.

Stephen:
[56:24] That is a perfect word.

Robert:
[56:26] Yeah.

Kat:
[56:27] Okay. What is your go-to when you need to breathe and rest or reset?

Robert:
[56:33] Lots of drugs and alcohol.

Kat:
[56:37] Robert's is kidding.

Robert:
[56:38] Yes, very much. That is not a healthy way to do that.

Kat:
[56:41] Breathe and reset.

Robert:
[56:42] Ask the question again.

Kat:
[56:44] What is it that your go-to when you need to breathe and reset?

Robert:
[56:48] Oh, nature. Yeah, definitely.

Kat:
[56:50] Yeah, that's yours for sure.

Robert:
[56:51] Go on a hike.

Kat:
[56:52] Yeah. Breathe and reset.

Stephen:
[56:53] Music.

Kat:
[56:55] Oh.

Robert:
[56:56] For sure. Music ends up being too much of a distraction for me. We were talking about that in the car, like, like, If I listen to music, it prevents me from actually thinking.

Stephen:
[57:06] There's only one kind of music that can do it. There's only one kind of music for me.

Robert:
[57:10] Yeah. What is it?

Stephen:
[57:11] Acapella.

Robert:
[57:13] Interesting.

Stephen:
[57:14] The human voice.

Robert:
[57:15] Okay.

Stephen:
[57:15] Removing all the other distractions of instruments and special effects and all that stuff. Just the human voice harmonizing upon itself.

Robert:
[57:22] Okay.

Stephen:
[57:23] Is just, oh my gosh. I can just, I can melt.

Robert:
[57:28] That's good. All right. And you?

Kat:
[57:31] Cooking without deadlines.

Robert:
[57:36] Does such a thing even exist? How often does that happen?

Kat:
[57:38] Not very often. But, I mean, like, I love cooking for dinner parties. That brings me a ton of joy. And I, like...

Robert:
[57:46] But there's a time on that.

Kat:
[57:47] There is, but, like, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking more like the daily grind of dinner making.

Robert:
[57:53] Yeah, yeah.

Kat:
[57:54] That is not peaceful. It's, like, stressful and get it on and get the table set and get the kids out.

Robert:
[58:00] Because of what's next, because I want the kids to go to bed.

Kat:
[58:02] Right, exactly. So it's like this frenetic energy to get there. But if I'm like on the weekend and I know that you guys are coming over, friends or family, I'm making bread, I'm doing this. And there's like this peaceful moment in the kitchen and I can breathe. That or reading.

Robert:
[58:19] Reading too. Selah.

Kat:
[58:20] Yeah.

Robert:
[58:21] Like a Selah moment.

Kat:
[58:22] Selah moment. Okay. What robs your peace faster than it should?

Stephen:
[58:35] Lack of preparedness.

Kat:
[58:38] Yes, I have seen that with you. I've seen like...

Stephen:
[58:42] Actually, I'll just say procrastination.

Kat:
[58:45] I have seen that and like your eyes change when you're in that mode and you're stressing. I have seen that before.

Robert:
[58:56] Yeah.

Stephen:
[59:01] Bob's giving me that look.

Robert:
[59:02] Ask the question again, please.

Kat:
[59:04] What robs your piece faster than it should?

Robert:
[59:11] Probably part of it is planning, like a lack of preparation, but I think a lot of it has to do with the unexpected. And that's one thing I found in like this new role is that there's a lot of unexpected, but God has given me peace in it, which is surprising. There are moments where I'm like, I don't like numbers, right? And then when we take a test, I have to frenzy, get these numbers, put them together and aggregate it in a way that's presentable for teachers. And it's just, I don't like unexpected things, you know? It's like, well, let's try this and let's do this. And it's like, how about we don't and we just do what's been working well?

Kat:
[59:56] Mm-hmm.

Robert:
[59:57] Yeah. You know, don't, don't try to say, don't try and fix something that doesn't need to be fixed. You know, an education is always.

Kat:
[1:00:03] Oh yeah.

Robert:
[1:00:04] It's frustrating. It's like, just let things be.

Stephen:
[1:00:06] If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Kat:
[1:00:08] Don't fix it.

Robert:
[1:00:08] So I guess the answer is the unexpected.

Kat:
[1:00:10] Okay. Conflict. Confrontation. Conflict.

Robert:
[1:00:18] You're a peacemaker.

Kat:
[1:00:20] Disappointing other people. Gosh, that rips me. It really does. with my husband with my family with my daughter it just i can go from zero tranquil calm to 150 in seconds that.

Stephen:
[1:00:36] Is so true that italian comes out.

Kat:
[1:00:39] Well it's it's not just anger it's anger but then it's sadness like there's it's a whole range of negative emotions it is it just it is i get you know immersed in that sadness and that discipline in myself and the other person and, conflict is that's.

Stephen:
[1:00:57] The thing about being an empath is that you don't just feel you feel.

Kat:
[1:01:00] Everything at once so definitely conflict peace feels like joy, Peace feels like...

Stephen:
[1:01:16] Harmony.

Kat:
[1:01:20] Peace feels like mercy.

Robert:
[1:01:26] I'm not getting that one. You're going to have to explain that.

Stephen:
[1:01:30] She would be the one to have, like, some super cerebral...

Robert:
[1:01:34] Right.

Kat:
[1:01:35] Mercy for myself. Mercy for other people. If you think about it, if you track it back to what I said, that robs it the most, it's conflict. but peace feels like despite this I can be merciful despite this you can be merciful despite this God can be merciful and though there's this maelstrom there's mercy in it there's gentleness in it that's peace.

Robert:
[1:02:14] Thanks for joining us today as we explored the highly debatable concept of peace. We hope the discussion sparked some insight in your heart and maybe inspired you to do some further digging on this topic. If you haven't already and would like to download the companion devotional for this season, you can find it for free on Spotify or on our website at thefellowshippodcast.com. You can also find us on Instagram, Facebook, and write to us with any questions or feedback at questionsatthefellowshippodcast.com.

Robert:
[1:02:46] You can also send us a text. Just click Join the Conversation found in the episode description on any platform you listen. We would love to hear from you. We are truly glad you joined us today, and we hope you join us next time on The Fellowship.